Comments on: Smalltalk: Variations on a theme http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/ Still powered by a contradiction in terms Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:51:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: hughson.co.uk » Blog Archive » Smalltalk Implementations http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1382 hughson.co.uk » Blog Archive » Smalltalk Implementations Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:33:24 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1382 [...] at Reflective Surface there is a rather nice post that compares some of the various Smalltalk implementations currently [...] [...] at Reflective Surface there is a rather nice post that compares some of the various Smalltalk implementations currently [...]

]]> By: Pedro http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1381 Pedro Tue, 10 Jul 2007 06:48:45 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1381 Try squeak-dev its a image oriented to the developers, instead of educational Try squeak-dev its a image oriented to the developers, instead of educational

]]> By: Ronaldo http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1246 Ronaldo Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:00:45 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1246 Michael, thansk for the comments. I haven't followed the Squeak mailing list for a while but I'll subscribe again. Squeak was one of the first Smalltalk implementation I had access to, and I still enjoy its playfulness. Programming languages should be happy. :-) Anyway, I hope people will see the Smalltalk bits in the OLPC project as a way to try a new language. It would be cool to see more and more applications becoming reality because of this. I really hope it pays off: it was a very enlightened decision by the OLPC designers. :-) --- James, thanks for the clarification. It was very helpful, though it would be nice if this information was easier to find on the site. Anyway, the VAR pricing puts Cincom Smalltalk much closer to Dolphin Smalltalk and Smalltalk MT with the added bonus of a cross-platform implementation. I've been using the non-commercial version on and off for a couple years, and it has been really solid. --- Alan, wow! That was great, getting a comment from the Glorp creator and one of the most prominent persons in the Smalltalk community. I beg your pardon for the bit of fan-boy behavior. :-) Thanks for the feedback. Glorp is really great and I only wish Seaside and Glorp could gain as much exposure as Rails. They are a mind-blowing way of creating web-based database applications. Anyway, do you have any pointers on the GNU Smalltalk port of Glorp? Dolphin, Squeak and VisualAge are on the SourceForge packages but I found no mention of the GST port there or in any other site except for a few mailing list references. Michael, thansk for the comments. I haven’t followed the Squeak mailing list for a while but I’ll subscribe again. Squeak was one of the first Smalltalk implementation I had access to, and I still enjoy its playfulness. Programming languages should be happy. :-)

Anyway, I hope people will see the Smalltalk bits in the OLPC project as a way to try a new language. It would be cool to see more and more applications becoming reality because of this. I really hope it pays off: it was a very enlightened decision by the OLPC designers. :-)

—

James, thanks for the clarification. It was very helpful, though it would be nice if this information was easier to find on the site.

Anyway, the VAR pricing puts Cincom Smalltalk much closer to Dolphin Smalltalk and Smalltalk MT with the added bonus of a cross-platform implementation. I’ve been using the non-commercial version on and off for a couple years, and it has been really solid.

—

Alan, wow! That was great, getting a comment from the Glorp creator and one of the most prominent persons in the Smalltalk community. I beg your pardon for the bit of fan-boy behavior. :-)

Thanks for the feedback. Glorp is really great and I only wish Seaside and Glorp could gain as much exposure as Rails. They are a mind-blowing way of creating web-based database applications. Anyway, do you have any pointers on the GNU Smalltalk port of Glorp? Dolphin, Squeak and VisualAge are on the SourceForge packages but I found no mention of the GST port there or in any other site except for a few mailing list references.

]]> By: Alan Knight http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1245 Alan Knight Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:10:52 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1245 Glorp is actually extremely portable between Smalltalks. It is developed primarily on VisualWorks because, well, I develop primarily on VisualWorks. Ports exist to VisualAge, Squeak, Dolphin, GNU Smalltalk, and Smalltalk/X, and are generally not difficult to do for others. Seaside relies on some trickier constructs, but I believe is available in at least VisualWorks, Squeak, and Dolphin. Glorp is actually extremely portable between Smalltalks. It is developed primarily on VisualWorks because, well, I develop primarily on VisualWorks. Ports exist to VisualAge, Squeak, Dolphin, GNU Smalltalk, and Smalltalk/X, and are generally not difficult to do for others. Seaside relies on some trickier constructs, but I believe is available in at least VisualWorks, Squeak, and Dolphin.

]]> By: James Robertson http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1244 James Robertson Wed, 07 Feb 2007 23:51:19 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1244 Cincom doesn't publish prices as part of its general policy - I don't always agree with that policy, but there it is. In any event, Cincom charges one of three ways for Cincom Smalltalk: 1) End user pricing - we charge by the number of deployed seats for the application This is typically appropriate for in-house, client applications 2) Per-CPU pricing - we charge by the number of CPUs in the server you deploy on This is typically appropriate for in-house, server based applications 3) VAR Pricing - we charge a royalty based on the Smalltalk based sales to external entities see here: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/How+does+VAR+Pricing+work for an explanation of the simplest version of that. In general, you can pay more upfront in order to lower the royalty percentage. Cincom doesn’t publish prices as part of its general policy - I don’t always agree with that policy, but there it is.

In any event, Cincom charges one of three ways for Cincom Smalltalk:

1) End user pricing - we charge by the number of deployed seats for the application

This is typically appropriate for in-house, client applications

2) Per-CPU pricing - we charge by the number of CPUs in the server you deploy on

This is typically appropriate for in-house, server based applications

3) VAR Pricing - we charge a royalty based on the Smalltalk based sales to external entities

see here:

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/How+does+VAR+Pricing+work

for an explanation of the simplest version of that. In general, you can pay more upfront in order to lower the royalty percentage.

]]> By: Michael Davies http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/comment-page-1/#comment-1243 Michael Davies Wed, 07 Feb 2007 23:24:58 +0000 http://log.reflectivesurface.com/2007/02/07/smalltalk-variations-on-a-theme/#comment-1243 A very interesting post, and a good summary of how things stand in the Smalltalk world at the moment. You might be interested to know that there's a couple of discussions on the Squeak developers mailing-list (see http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general ) at the moment about Squeak's current strengths and weaknesses, and how it should develop in the future. Seaside and the OLPC project are starting to re-focus a lot of (overdue) attention on Smalltalk, and as you say, this can only be good for all concerned. Cheers, Michael A very interesting post, and a good summary of how things stand in the Smalltalk world at the moment.

You might be interested to know that there’s a couple of discussions on the Squeak developers mailing-list (see http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general ) at the moment about Squeak’s current strengths and weaknesses, and how it should develop in the future.

Seaside and the OLPC project are starting to re-focus a lot of (overdue) attention on Smalltalk, and as you say, this can only be good for all concerned.

Cheers,
Michael

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